askjake

Subfloor for hardwood

Doug asks:

Hi Jake. I hope you can help settle this. 

I have an 8 year old home. I am ready to install 3/8 br. cherry hardwood. The subfloor is 3/4 ps2 osb and there is a 1/4 underlayment of utility plywood throughout. I removed the vinyl so it was level with the dining room, where there was laminate. I am using an insulament on top. Can I go right over using 1 1/4 staples or does the darn 1/4 have to come up? Some of it is glued down and I am afraid i will tear up the osb and have to put plywood right back down. Thanks.

Jake's answer:

Doug,

If the ¼” is in good shape and well attached, I would leave it down.  You are correct about the damage that might occur if you try to remove it.  I have seen the veneers of the sub floor de-laminate under these conditions, and then you will be right back where you started, having to cover the sub-floor with another underlayment. 

Timeline for staining floors

Alex asks:

Our home is new construction. The pine wood floors are installed throughout. My wife is concerned that they are staining the floors AFTER all the cabinets are installed. I thought this was normal, but she seems to think the finish would be more even if the floors were stained prior to the cabinets being installed.

Thoughts? Advice?

Thanks!

Jake's answer:

Alex,

In our area, typically on new homes the unfinished wood floor is installed just after the drywall is completed. It is not finished at this time. After the wood floors are installed, the trim and cabinets are installed, then they are painted/stained. The finish of the wood floors is usually one of the last items to be completed.  

One of the primary reasons for this is to minimize any damage that may occur after the finish floor is applied. There is usually a lot of construction activity that takes place in the new home and it is likely that the floors will get scratched. In some rare instances the wood floors are fished immediately following their installation.  I would not suggest this method on a new home. It's too risky.  

I hope this helps.  

Jake 

Sub-flooring for oak

Question from Dan: I want to replace carpeting with prefinished 3/4" x 3 1/4" solid oak flooring in my late sixties home that has 2x6 tongue and groove sub floor. The sub floor planks run the same direction as the intended direction of the prefinished boards and are separated by as much as 1/4" in some boards as well as differing heights of 1/8" in many places. What would you recommend to flatten this type of sub floor? Adding a sheet wood product is a problem, because adjacent tiled floors are only 7/8" above the sub floor. Thanks for your help. 

Jake's Answer: Dan, I have never seen a sub-floor of the type you describe. I assume this sub-floor runs perpendicular to the floor joists and that is the same direction that you should run your new hardwood floor. The direction and the separation of the boards do not concern me. The difference in heights does concern me. You have to figure out a way to get the boards re-nail or screwed so they are all even or you will have to install an underlayment, preferably ½” plywood. Make sure to gap the plywood at all edges to allow for some expansion and contraction. Where the new hardwood meets up with the tile floor, you will need to install a transition strip.

Oak floors and dark stain

Question from Stephen: 

I am moving into a house with covered oak floors. I would like to stain them dark but this seems to go against the natural oak tendency of a light look. Do you have any advice about staining oak a dark color? 

Jake's answer: 

Stephen, Yes, I do have an opinion and the opinion is “go for it.” We stain quite a few of our oak floors a dark stain. Oak can look very beautiful when it is stained dark. Staining oak a dark color can be a little more time consuming. It might require more than one coat of stain and the wood might have to be “prepared” to accept the darker stain. The grains have to be opened to take the stain. Try some test patches before you stain the entire floor. Good luck.

A "checked" hardwood floor

Question from Bob: 

About 4 years ago, I had some prefinished 3 1/4" x 3/4" t&g hardwood flooring installed in my foyer, living room, dining room. Prior to the installation, I pulled out all of the old carpet and padding (and about a thousand staples!) myself, and found the 30 year old 5/8" plywood subfloor to be a bit uneven; with dips here and there, and some spiking where the 4'x8' sheets met. After having pointed out the uneven subfloor to the installer and asking if we would need to use any leveling compound or some such thing, he stated "Don't worry about that, once that flooring goes down it'll level right out." Suffice to say, this highly recommended installer, who was a friend of my ex gf's family, didn't know what he was talking about, and now I'm left with a horrible looking "checked" floor. I've considered having it sanded and refinished to flatten it out, but I don't think that's really going to yield the results I'm looking for. What I'd really prefer would be to first pull the flooring up, level or replace the subfloor as needed, put the flooring back down, and THEN sand and refinish. Is this feasible? Would the flooring be destroyed in trying to pull it up? It's not glued, just nailed. 

Jake's answer:

Bob, 

Those ex-girlfriend’s recommendations can have a way of coming back and haunting us. I have seen a lot of hardwood floor installations over some relatively ruff sub floors and I can not recall seeing the situation you are describing. Are you certain that this “checking” you speak of is not a result of moisture? If the hardwood went in with high moisture it can later experience a cupping as it “shrinks”. I doubt if you will have much luck in removing and salvaging the old floor – most of the time it will get torn up when removing it. Before removing the floor, do a test sand on a section of flooring and see if that improves the looks at all. Good Luck.

Removing flooring under cabinets

Question from Dauna:

My cabinets in the kitchen were installed over the hardwood flooring. I would like to remove the flooring. How do I do this so I don't damage the cabinet? Is there specific tools I need? 

Jake's Answer:

Dauna, 

This is tough job to accomplish, however it can be done. You can use a Crain 795 toe kick saw, check out these tools at www.craintools.com. This tool will allow you to undercut the existing floor to a depth of ¾”. After cutting the flooring, use a pry bar to pull up the existing hardwood. Have fun!!

Prepping floor for hardwood

Question from Allison: Hi Jake, My husband and I have been getting some estimates for installing hardwood floors in our home. The living room and dining room floors originally had a layer of ½ inch plywood, ½ inch OSB, and carpeting. Upon ripping up the carpeting, the OSB layer was damaged and had an unpleasant odor, so my husband removed that as well. We are now left with ½ inch layer of plywood. We have received some different opinions regarding the installation. Can ¾ inch hardwood floors be installed right on top of ½ inch plywood, or should a layer of ¾ inch plywood be layed on top of the ½ inch plywood before the ¾ inch hardwood? Thanks! 

Jake's answer: Allison, You should be able to install the hardwood right over the existing ½” plywood. I have seen this application in homes that were built in the 1950’s and you could not tell that there was only a ½” subfloor underneath. You could always have them install a 2’ x 2’ section to see if you can tell the difference.

Oak's "grainy look"

Question from Deborah: I have made a terrible mistake. Recently I had red oak hardwood flooring installed in my great room and hallways. Unfortunately I did not see before hand what the final product would look like. Needlesss to say I hate the grainy look of the floor. Is there any way to minimize the grain without totally removing the floor? 

Jake's answer: I don’t think so. The “grainy look” of which you write about is the signature look of oak. You can sand all day on the floor and never remove the grain – it goes all the way through it. This grainy look is usually a problem when people paint their oak cabinets. When painting oak you can use a filler to help fill in some the grains and minimize the impact of the look. The darker you stain the wood, the less noticeable is the grain. You might try that on a section to see if it helps your situation. Good luck!

Installing hardwood over paw prints

Question from Joe: I am buying a house that has a finished concrete floor that has to say the least "texturing" to include the previous owner's dog's paw prints. I want to install hardwood over the floor but don't know the best or most economical way to smooth and level the floor first. Please advise. There are other repairs also needed and I am on a tight timeline and budget to get the house ready for my family as soon as possible after closing.

Jake's answer: Joe, I assume these paw prints have left not only an indention but some raised concrete as well. The indentions should not be a problem. The hardwood can span these. The raised parts will need to be chiseled off below the surface. Check the floor for high and low spots and infill with a concrete leveling product like DAP, www.dap.com. Most of these self-leveling products are easy to use but they can be expensive. Since your floor will be glued, you will want to minimize the unevenness of the concrete. Good luck.

Saving and reusing a hardwood floor

Question:  Hi Jake 18mths ago we had an oak floor installed over a concrete base. We now have real problems with the wood expanding and the floor rising. Having taken part of the floor up I can see the insulation between floor and concrete is, to say the least not sealed. I will have to take up the whole floor. The tongue and groove floor boards were glued together (only lengthways it seems). What tools/methods can you recommend to take up the wood to give the best chance of it being reusable? Regards Paul

Jake's answer:  Paul, I would do a moisture test on the floor prior to resetting your wood floor.  You can do this by tightly taping a piece of plastic over the floor, about a 1 square foot area, and leave it there for 48 hours or so.  At that time you can see if  you have trapped any moisture that may be migrating up through the concrete.  If there is moisture, you should tackle that problem before resetting the floor.  As far as how to remove the flooring with the glued tongues - now that is a good question.  We do not install our floors that way.  If the glue did its job, trying to pull the boards apart most likely will result in the tongues splitting out.  Depending on what type of glue you used, you might try to find a solvent that will dissolve the glue.  Good luck.