askjake

Exposing the joists

Jake - Thanks for providing this wonderful resource. 

Question for you - I'm remodeling my family room in my single-story ranch. I'd like to create interest and the sense of increased height in the room by exposing the ceiling joists. I got this idea from a recent issue of Atomic Ranch - in the remodel in question they inserted drywall between the joists and painted the joists white. It was a really clean look but they only gained 4" of space that way. Is there any way to place a ceiling material on TOP of the joists to gain the full 10" of space? What kinds of considerations will I need to take into account if I do that? (I'm thinking of the weight of the materials and how I do ceiling fans/lighting here.) Thanks in advance...

Jubi

Jubi,

If you place the ceiling material, (drywall, paneling, wood strips etc) on top of the joists you will only pick up the depth of the joists for additional space.  What you saw in the photo was probably 2 x 4 ceiling joists.  Do you know what size joists you have?  It seems you are expecting to see 2 x 10’s if you are thinking you will be seeing a 10” space.  The weight of your new ceiling material should not be a factor.  You will have to make some small framing additions to the joists to accept an electrical box for a fan or light.  Do not remove any of the ceiling joists without consulting an engineer or architect – these joists are structural members.

I have seen  people remove the ceiling covering and install another layer of joists above the existing joists, and apply a ceiling covering to the new joists.  This can add even more to the feeling of “space” in the family room. 

Have fun!

Ceiling redo

Jim's question: 

Hi Jake,

I have a house in Ohio built in 1952. There is no insulation in the roof above the bedroom. It is covered by 1/4" drywall only.  

I'm going to take down the ceiling and start over. The walls are 3/8" drywall, uninsulated as well.  Any tips on doing the ceiling? Would basement ceiling insulation work? Do i need to leave room for air flow? Want to come over and help?

Thanks,

Jim

Jake's answer: 

Jim,

Thank you for visiting our web site.  

The answer you want depends on a few factors: Your location and the size of the roof rafters.   

In my area (Kansas City), ceiling insulation calls for a R-38, with an air space so any trapped moisture can escape.  This type of insulation requires at least 10” of space, which you most likely don’t have in your house.  

The R-value is the number used to rate the resistance to heat transfer through a particular kind of material.  The higher the R-value, the more resistance to heat transfer, thus a more energy efficient product.  You can add thickness to your existing rafters to come up with the required thickness or use a spray-on type foam insulation that will provide for a much higher R value in thinner spaces.   

A product that we use is called Icynene.  It’s a more expensive product but well worth it.  Unfortunately, there is usually a minimum set up charge - so the more area you have to insulate, the more economical it will be to use it.   You can find out how much insulation you need to use on your walls, ceilings and walls at the Department of Energy website.

Raising the ceilings

Question from Shannon: 

I'd love to have trey ceilings in my home, but I have standard 8ft. ceiling height in all but my living room. The living room has vaulted ceilings. Is there anything I can do to add a faux appearance to the ceilings in my master bedroom and dining room to make them appear to be trey ceilings...could the existing ceiling be recessed at all...even and inch or two without a major renovation? I love my home and the location of my home...don't want to build again, ever.....just would like a few cosmetic upgrades.

Jake's Answer: 

Shannon,

It would be relatively simple to raise your ceilings if you have attic space above the rooms.  If you have living space above these two rooms, then you probably will not be able to raise them. However, you could lower the perimeter of the room by one or two inches and not really compromise the feeling of ceiling height. Attach 2 x 2’s around the edge of the room, coming out about 2’ then install ½” drywall to it.  Finish it out with some crown mold. 

Moisture on the ceiling

Question from Scott: I have a hip roof on my house. It has a 26x26 great room with a pine tongue-n-groove vaulted ceiling in the center of the house. There is a circular attic around this great room (donut shaped). I have moisture problems in the winter and summer at the peak area of my vaulted ceiling. The rafters in the vaulted ceiling is stuffed with bat insulation, and no air space. Do I need to vent the peak? Do I need to install ridge vents? Do I need to pull the bat insulation out? Cupola?

Jake's Answer: 

Scott,

Yes, you have a moisture problem and proper ventilation is the answer. 

You should have both lower and upper vents, and all joists spaces need to be vented. This may be accomplished by running a continuous ridge vent and soffit vents. If the existing insulation has been compromised by moisture you may need to replace this insulation. It can be difficult to really properly ventilate these types of vaulted roofs.  You need at least 10” inches of insulation plus 2” of air space above it.

To get around this air space and thickness problem we have been using a spray on type foam called Icynene.  Check it out at www.icynene.com.  This is a really cool product that works great on vaulted roofs. 

 

Vapor barriers

Question from Mark: 

I'm in the process of remodeling a mud room and want to know if I should vapor barrier the ceiling after put insulation up. We plan to have the room heated during the winter months. 

Jake's answer: 

Mark, Vapor barriers go towards the warm side of the insulation, so you would want to install the vapor barrier first. If you are using kraft faced batts, the kraft paper will act as your vapor barrier. Otherwise, you should install a plastic vapor barrier.

Installing flooring on the ceiling

Question from Karem: I have a remote cottage which has a vaulted ceiling ... it was never finished and right now, all that is there is styrofoam sheets between the joists. I happen to have laminate flooring and thought that it would look nice to install it over the styrofoam between the ceiling joists ... it would certainly match the laminate flooring on the floor but I am concerned about the weight ... what do you think? 

Jake’s Answer: Karem, I can’t imagine the weight of the laminate flooring being too heavy for the ceiling. I have to assume that the vaulted ceiling was designed to have drywall or paneling installed on it. The laminate flooring is pretty close in weight to those items. One thing that does concern me is the installation of the laminate on the ceiling. Laminate flooring is designed to “float” on the floor and not to be nailed. In your case, you will either glue or nail the laminate to the ceiling which will not allow it to “float”. Check out this website for frequently asked questions about laminate flooring.

Ceiling condensation

Question from Mike: I have a problem with condensation on the ceiling of my porch, how can I fix this or what do I need to look for? 

Jake’s Answer: Mike, As you probably know, when the humidity level is high enough and the surface temperature of the porch ceiling is cool enough, you will have condensation form on the ceiling. So you can do one of two things, change the humidity level or change the temperature of the ceiling. Since this ceiling is outside, I assume, the humidity level will be pretty tough to control. You could install a fan with a humidistat control. This might help equalize the temperature which should lead to minimizing the chance of condensation forming. This could be a ceiling fan or a wall mounted fan.

Modifying a ceiling

Question:  I have a 12\'x18 masterbedroom.I want to add a trey ceiling. My ceiling is 11\'. My question is can I just frame up the trey ceiling on the existing ceiling and not have rip anything out except for the crown moulding?

Jake's Answer:  I assume you are going to "drop" the ceiling approximately 3 to 4" around the perimeter of the room.  In doing so you will be adding some framing, probably 2 x 4's.  If you can get these new framing members properly attached to the existing framing I don't see a problem.  You could bolt up through the new lumber and secure the trey ceiling that way. 

Modifying an A-Frame house

Question:  We live in an A-frame home with the master bedroom on the second floor (loft). Because we are in a loft, it doesn\'t afford us any privacy from the rest of the house. What are our options in putting a ceiling in this room? The current ceiling goes up about 30 feet. The room is huge at 21\' x 21\'. It\'s really the only thing we don\'t like about this house. Can you offer some suggestions?

Jake's answer:  Have you considered erecting a wall at the bedroom to provide some screening between the lower room and the bedroom?  This wall could be full height to the ceiling (roof) or it could be only partial so as to provide some privacy but keep the open feeling that comes with an A Frame.  You could add a ceiling which would actually add to the structural strength of the house.  This ceiling  could be a coiffured style to add a little interest to it. 

Making a ceilng level

Question:  Hi Jake- I have a kitchen ceiling in the work area that is 12\" lower than the eating area celing. In the center there is recessed florescent lighting. This drop area was built using 2x12 sides. How can I tell if the 2x12 is a structural piece or just a quick way to get a level ceiling in the work area? I\'d like to remove the false ceiling and raise it up to level with the eating area? Thanks, Jim

Jake's Answer:  Jim, there might be a couple of ways of determining if the drop down is structural.  The first would be to look above the kitchen area.  If there is attic, then maybe you can get into the attic space and see if there is a reason for the drop.  If the kitchen is below a second floor, then look at the floor above.  Is it level with the other floors?  If yes, then the drop is probably non-structural.  The other way is to cut a hole in the ceiling big enough to allow you to poke your head up there and take a look around.  If there are joists above the 2 x 12's, then the drop is probably non-structural.